Given the right talking point and angle this sounds like a great change. Except we know it isn't.
I live only minutes away from Nicola Willis, and I know how privileged this side of town is (incidentally I'm super happy she isn't a candidate for Wellington Central as I don't want her representing me).
I realise it may have been different when her kids were babies, and of course babies aren't easy no matter your situation, but she has done articles talking about having her parents 5mins away, and a husband who works part time to make looking after their family easier, so I hope you'll forgive me for taking everything she says with a massive shot of salt, and believing that she is out of touch and has no understanding of her privilege.
And don't get me started on the rest of those idiots, but it's such an affront when I see "as a mother" being invoked as if that means that you have an understanding of the "universal experience of mothering" as if that's even a thing
Oh and that comment was a rant about Nicola Willis, but Labour are useless. They have had such an opportunity to make things better and easier for families and it's only getting harder. There shouldn't even be an opportunity for National to look like they are better for families, Labour should be owning that space and they aren't.
Nicola Willis vote against increasing maternity leave to six months, along with her National colleagues on the basis it was unafforable. Now she is hijacking this issue. I agree there shoul be some flexiility, but not at the cost of undermining the six months available to women. I o think that some MPs will know how difficult it can be for women - some Mps have been single parents when they ha their babies. Not all have ha Nicola Willis' privilege.
Just to be clear - “This bill was not the answer to the hell many parents go through in their attempts to stay home with their baby. Neither should it have been shot down.” It’s literally up to Labour to offer solutions. “Family friendly policies” are all well and good but we are in a cost of living crisis - what is labour doing to mitigate that? And is it enough to behave the way they have with this issue?
So infuriating. I've never been a National voter but the last few years have really destroyed any goodwill I had towards Labour too. Both parties have lost sight of what their jobs are supposed to be. Can we turn Parliament off and on again and start over?
My great hope is people realise the major parties only care about power. The Greens and Te Pati Māori are the only parties even recognising there is a cost of living crisis and trying to do something about it
I was on the DPB when Ruthanasia ("the mother of all budgets") kicked in and I went from just managing, to not coping at all (financially). I hadn't ever voted for National at that point, and resolved from that time onward that I never would, whatever new Leader/policies/bright, shiny new ideas they came up with.
A political party that actually cared about its country's citizens would make it possible for women (or at least one parent) to remain home for as long as they need to give the future voters of NZ (that is today's children) the best possible foundation for optimal wellbeing, but when everything is only valued for short term profits, this is what you get.
So Nicola Willis' bill would chopup the leave women have available . I don't want to see that happen. I o however realise that some flexibility in the system is neccesary. I would like to see that adding to what is currently available- not taking away from.
To be fair Janis - nothing Robin said was against flexibility in the system. Or suggestive that leave should be cut. Don’t know if this was meant to be a reply to Robin but just wanted to point that out ❤️
Thanks for this Emily - I have to say - I was gobsmacked. If only...if only ..... I thought to myself. One child with Down syndrome and less than two years later one with a cleft palate - no parental leave. I would have loved my husband to be at home with me to support me. But a huge acknowledgement to IHC who came to the rescue to help with some home care support. Three children under three and a half! I look back at photos of myself - how the hell did we do it? So to see the two major parties squabbling - I was deeply deeply disappointed. Bloody politics and election cycles.
Thank you for writing this - it needs to be front page news, all over social media and possibly posted on the walls of voting stations come the election. It's nauseating watching privileged politicians blathering about things they have no understanding of, and worse, no apparent desire to gain any understanding of. These idiots are converting New Zealand, once a leader in compassionate social welfare, into a third world country where only the wealthy get a good life. Surely we can do better.
Leaving out the various kinds of privilege that made it possible, Nicola Willis apparently recognises that her returning to work with a young baby was difficult and poorly accommodated. So wishing this upon others sounds not just unrealistic, but faintly malicious.
As cynical as it may sound, I think this debate shows that this bill was simply about National trying to win back the middle class voters they've lost over the last two elections. They know full-well these changes would have done nothing at all to provide additional support to those who are really struggling. They know those people won't vote for National anyway. It was purely targeted at people like Nicola Willis herself - people who are doing okay, who have support, who aren't on the bread line. That's the best they could hope for - to try and claw back those voters by making it seem like they were "ordinary Kiwis" themselves, who understood the problems of "ordinary" New Zealanders. This is what you get when you put Jeff-Bezos-light as your party leader 🙄
Couldn’t have put it better myself. There is an interesting article in the Spinoff today talking about why Labour voted the bill down and all I could think about while reading it, was that both sides of politicians were missing the point. And then you articulated that perfectly
I missed this debate because of ... personal bandwidth limitations ... so thank you for sharing this synopsis. I’ve seen some rehashed content on SM and I hate that it’s been reduced to ‘Labour hates parents’. So many people I know are sharing Nicola Willis’ speech with snaps and claps as if she is the saviour of the middle class working parents. Political amnesia ...
Everything about it just sucks. My brother had to go back to work as a teacher after 2 weeks (unpaid), when their boys had only been home from hospital for a few days. It was awful! My partner is a contractor so gets zero leave, so having the option to share some of my leave when we eventually/hopefully have kids would have been a good benefit. And then I hear about people with high paying corporate roles where even the non-birthing partner can have 3 or even 6 months off on full pay!! I feel like I can't complain too much as we are relatively comfortable but it's really not an ideal way to be starting a family, stressing over money.
I was in Sweden in ‘06 and iirc even then they got 18mths paid parental leave and could choose how to split it. My friend took the first 9 mths then headed back to work and her partner took the remaining 9 mths. Seemed like simple common sense at the time, still does.
Hi Emily- I take your point about the toxicity of the debate. I do support flexibility being added to the Act so that partners can support the birth parent, and/ or take over care for a period of tme. However, I do not support that flexibility being added into the current six months maternity leave. I believe that should stay intact for the many women who do need it. I know my daughter in law used every bit of her six months maternity leave to be able to breast feed. She was able to add another three months to that befor, she weened her first baby. This was in Australia.,and my son was able to take time off work as needed. The flexibility I would like to see added would increase maternity leave by at least one to three months - maybe called partners leave, able to be accessed by partners so that women who have given birth can be supported by partners, can retain the ability to recuperate,and breast feed for at least six months without having to balance outside work with being a new mother, and cope with the sort of issues you had to cope with. Of course women can choose to return to work earlier, and to express if that is their choice. What I don't want to see is the ability to have six months leave undermined.
I hear you but literally none of that matters because the two major parties decided to fight about it with each other rather than actually do something about it. If Labour doesn’t support the bill - offer other solutions, what are they giving in place? Nothing. Genuinely, what else are they offering other than just saying all the things they once did for parents?
Sadly none of our major parties, or the feminist movement, take social production seriously. Until it is on a par with, or regarded as more important than material production, it will always be on the back foot. We have gone down the neo-liberal path to the extent where it is impossible for families of any and all compositions to make choices - unless they are well off. It is hypocritical in the extreme for the Nats to pretend to have parenting interests at heart - they have blocked so many measures and both they and Labour have treated solo women in particular in a punitive manner. Your writing, as always, is to the point and builds solidarity. Thank you.
But to be fair Labour have taken some steps to stop punitive measures for women on benefits . The reality is that we live in a society, and in cultures that are punitive towards solo women.
Well you may well get your wish at the election this year. I wonder if you will enjoy what the Coalition of Cuts -a coalition of the National, and Act parties implement. Personally I as a superannuatant, am concerned. I am sure they will be "on task". David Seymour especially.
I would hope Labour has taken some steps. It’s their job as party that was once supportive of the working class. I just need more than “Labour aren’t National” in order to support them.
On this matter as yet nothing extra has been offered. Except for a comment that Chippy may be going to announce some changes in this space. I guess we will have to wait and see.! As someone who worked for womens refuge for many years I am clear that not all partners are "helpful", and some of the concerns expressed such as coercion being used have validity. As a feminist it irks me that when women make some gains there is always ways to undermine those gains. I do understand the issues around flexibility , and one size does not fit every person, and her family situation. Yes I do hope that Labour ,having not supported Nicola Willis' bill will take on board the need for flexibility around parental/maternity leave, and come up with something workable- especially for women who do not have middle class privilege
Definitely, as I said I don’t support the bill. But I also don’t support Labour offering nothing in exchange. And I don’t support Labour heaping guilt on working mothers and offering nothing to support them. Don’t say your kids will have attachment issues if you’re not at home with them then turn down any tax changes that will help the very people who can’t stay home with their kids because of the cost of living crisis is what I’m saying.
Imagine a society where we valued social reproduction and where every new baby and parent/parents would be surrounded by love and the material support they need. Not only would it be the kindest thing to do, the economic and social savings downstream would be significant.
Given the right talking point and angle this sounds like a great change. Except we know it isn't.
I live only minutes away from Nicola Willis, and I know how privileged this side of town is (incidentally I'm super happy she isn't a candidate for Wellington Central as I don't want her representing me).
I realise it may have been different when her kids were babies, and of course babies aren't easy no matter your situation, but she has done articles talking about having her parents 5mins away, and a husband who works part time to make looking after their family easier, so I hope you'll forgive me for taking everything she says with a massive shot of salt, and believing that she is out of touch and has no understanding of her privilege.
And don't get me started on the rest of those idiots, but it's such an affront when I see "as a mother" being invoked as if that means that you have an understanding of the "universal experience of mothering" as if that's even a thing
Oh and that comment was a rant about Nicola Willis, but Labour are useless. They have had such an opportunity to make things better and easier for families and it's only getting harder. There shouldn't even be an opportunity for National to look like they are better for families, Labour should be owning that space and they aren't.
Totally agree.
So what do you suggest? What is your specific criticism? They would point out to you the policies they see as being family friendly.
Nicola Willis vote against increasing maternity leave to six months, along with her National colleagues on the basis it was unafforable. Now she is hijacking this issue. I agree there shoul be some flexiility, but not at the cost of undermining the six months available to women. I o think that some MPs will know how difficult it can be for women - some Mps have been single parents when they ha their babies. Not all have ha Nicola Willis' privilege.
Just to be clear - “This bill was not the answer to the hell many parents go through in their attempts to stay home with their baby. Neither should it have been shot down.” It’s literally up to Labour to offer solutions. “Family friendly policies” are all well and good but we are in a cost of living crisis - what is labour doing to mitigate that? And is it enough to behave the way they have with this issue?
So infuriating. I've never been a National voter but the last few years have really destroyed any goodwill I had towards Labour too. Both parties have lost sight of what their jobs are supposed to be. Can we turn Parliament off and on again and start over?
My great hope is people realise the major parties only care about power. The Greens and Te Pati Māori are the only parties even recognising there is a cost of living crisis and trying to do something about it
Same, I got a call recently for a political poll and I was like I don't really like many of the options.
While I am highly disappointed by the debate, I am not surprised. Thanks for the summary so that I don't have to watch it.
I was on the DPB when Ruthanasia ("the mother of all budgets") kicked in and I went from just managing, to not coping at all (financially). I hadn't ever voted for National at that point, and resolved from that time onward that I never would, whatever new Leader/policies/bright, shiny new ideas they came up with.
A political party that actually cared about its country's citizens would make it possible for women (or at least one parent) to remain home for as long as they need to give the future voters of NZ (that is today's children) the best possible foundation for optimal wellbeing, but when everything is only valued for short term profits, this is what you get.
So Nicola Willis' bill would chopup the leave women have available . I don't want to see that happen. I o however realise that some flexibility in the system is neccesary. I would like to see that adding to what is currently available- not taking away from.
To be fair Janis - nothing Robin said was against flexibility in the system. Or suggestive that leave should be cut. Don’t know if this was meant to be a reply to Robin but just wanted to point that out ❤️
Thanks for this Emily - I have to say - I was gobsmacked. If only...if only ..... I thought to myself. One child with Down syndrome and less than two years later one with a cleft palate - no parental leave. I would have loved my husband to be at home with me to support me. But a huge acknowledgement to IHC who came to the rescue to help with some home care support. Three children under three and a half! I look back at photos of myself - how the hell did we do it? So to see the two major parties squabbling - I was deeply deeply disappointed. Bloody politics and election cycles.
Thank you for writing this - it needs to be front page news, all over social media and possibly posted on the walls of voting stations come the election. It's nauseating watching privileged politicians blathering about things they have no understanding of, and worse, no apparent desire to gain any understanding of. These idiots are converting New Zealand, once a leader in compassionate social welfare, into a third world country where only the wealthy get a good life. Surely we can do better.
Leaving out the various kinds of privilege that made it possible, Nicola Willis apparently recognises that her returning to work with a young baby was difficult and poorly accommodated. So wishing this upon others sounds not just unrealistic, but faintly malicious.
As cynical as it may sound, I think this debate shows that this bill was simply about National trying to win back the middle class voters they've lost over the last two elections. They know full-well these changes would have done nothing at all to provide additional support to those who are really struggling. They know those people won't vote for National anyway. It was purely targeted at people like Nicola Willis herself - people who are doing okay, who have support, who aren't on the bread line. That's the best they could hope for - to try and claw back those voters by making it seem like they were "ordinary Kiwis" themselves, who understood the problems of "ordinary" New Zealanders. This is what you get when you put Jeff-Bezos-light as your party leader 🙄
Oh I totally agree. I don’t think for a single second they care about those struggling!
Couldn’t have put it better myself. There is an interesting article in the Spinoff today talking about why Labour voted the bill down and all I could think about while reading it, was that both sides of politicians were missing the point. And then you articulated that perfectly
I missed this debate because of ... personal bandwidth limitations ... so thank you for sharing this synopsis. I’ve seen some rehashed content on SM and I hate that it’s been reduced to ‘Labour hates parents’. So many people I know are sharing Nicola Willis’ speech with snaps and claps as if she is the saviour of the middle class working parents. Political amnesia ...
Everything about it just sucks. My brother had to go back to work as a teacher after 2 weeks (unpaid), when their boys had only been home from hospital for a few days. It was awful! My partner is a contractor so gets zero leave, so having the option to share some of my leave when we eventually/hopefully have kids would have been a good benefit. And then I hear about people with high paying corporate roles where even the non-birthing partner can have 3 or even 6 months off on full pay!! I feel like I can't complain too much as we are relatively comfortable but it's really not an ideal way to be starting a family, stressing over money.
I was in Sweden in ‘06 and iirc even then they got 18mths paid parental leave and could choose how to split it. My friend took the first 9 mths then headed back to work and her partner took the remaining 9 mths. Seemed like simple common sense at the time, still does.
You can already split it now, but you can't use it simultaneously.
oof that last line, nailed it.
Thank the lord for some logic and reason. Flipping shit-show.
Thank you Emily, excellent write-up!
👏 YES👏YES 👏 YES
Hi Emily- I take your point about the toxicity of the debate. I do support flexibility being added to the Act so that partners can support the birth parent, and/ or take over care for a period of tme. However, I do not support that flexibility being added into the current six months maternity leave. I believe that should stay intact for the many women who do need it. I know my daughter in law used every bit of her six months maternity leave to be able to breast feed. She was able to add another three months to that befor, she weened her first baby. This was in Australia.,and my son was able to take time off work as needed. The flexibility I would like to see added would increase maternity leave by at least one to three months - maybe called partners leave, able to be accessed by partners so that women who have given birth can be supported by partners, can retain the ability to recuperate,and breast feed for at least six months without having to balance outside work with being a new mother, and cope with the sort of issues you had to cope with. Of course women can choose to return to work earlier, and to express if that is their choice. What I don't want to see is the ability to have six months leave undermined.
I hear you but literally none of that matters because the two major parties decided to fight about it with each other rather than actually do something about it. If Labour doesn’t support the bill - offer other solutions, what are they giving in place? Nothing. Genuinely, what else are they offering other than just saying all the things they once did for parents?
Sadly none of our major parties, or the feminist movement, take social production seriously. Until it is on a par with, or regarded as more important than material production, it will always be on the back foot. We have gone down the neo-liberal path to the extent where it is impossible for families of any and all compositions to make choices - unless they are well off. It is hypocritical in the extreme for the Nats to pretend to have parenting interests at heart - they have blocked so many measures and both they and Labour have treated solo women in particular in a punitive manner. Your writing, as always, is to the point and builds solidarity. Thank you.
Totally agree with you Julie.
But to be fair Labour have taken some steps to stop punitive measures for women on benefits . The reality is that we live in a society, and in cultures that are punitive towards solo women.
They had the majority and failed to fully implement any of the 42 recommendation of the Welfare Expert Advisory Group -
To think they’ll never get a mandate like that again and they wasted it. This is why though we need coalitions to keep major parties on task.
Well you may well get your wish at the election this year. I wonder if you will enjoy what the Coalition of Cuts -a coalition of the National, and Act parties implement. Personally I as a superannuatant, am concerned. I am sure they will be "on task". David Seymour especially.
I would hope Labour has taken some steps. It’s their job as party that was once supportive of the working class. I just need more than “Labour aren’t National” in order to support them.
On this matter as yet nothing extra has been offered. Except for a comment that Chippy may be going to announce some changes in this space. I guess we will have to wait and see.! As someone who worked for womens refuge for many years I am clear that not all partners are "helpful", and some of the concerns expressed such as coercion being used have validity. As a feminist it irks me that when women make some gains there is always ways to undermine those gains. I do understand the issues around flexibility , and one size does not fit every person, and her family situation. Yes I do hope that Labour ,having not supported Nicola Willis' bill will take on board the need for flexibility around parental/maternity leave, and come up with something workable- especially for women who do not have middle class privilege
Definitely, as I said I don’t support the bill. But I also don’t support Labour offering nothing in exchange. And I don’t support Labour heaping guilt on working mothers and offering nothing to support them. Don’t say your kids will have attachment issues if you’re not at home with them then turn down any tax changes that will help the very people who can’t stay home with their kids because of the cost of living crisis is what I’m saying.
Imagine a society where we valued social reproduction and where every new baby and parent/parents would be surrounded by love and the material support they need. Not only would it be the kindest thing to do, the economic and social savings downstream would be significant.
We can hope! I really believe the only parties even coming close to recognising this is The Greens and Te Pati Māori.