I just got a very thoughtful comment from a young adult I know - a friend’s 19 year old - and I thought I’d share it - “If you try to take the internet away from kids, you don’t end up with kids that aren’t on the internet, you end up with kids that are REALLY GOOD at hiding the fact that they’re on the internet from their parents. And that results in a far lower chance that they’ll talk to their parents if something harmful happens to them on the internet.”
Just wanna say I love you all here. I sometimes forget how nice the conversations are here compared to FB. I’m like….what???? I’m so confused???? Whenever I’m on FB haha
It is so scary that Some Unqualified Guy is being employed by schools to offer some fairly suspect info. Some people were concerned enough to leave the meeting - I hope they let the school know why.
This is great. Schools find it hard to say no to this sort of stuff - there is (or is perceived to be) pressure from MoE, ERO etc and from some parents, BoT members, professional colleagues and so on to do "something" about the paranoia of the moment and these people absolutely prey on that.
I came across a similar person who had no relevant qualifications or publications but proudly claimed to be the leading national expert in evidence-based interventions - notwithstanding that not one word of that self-description is true.
Perhaps - when and if you feel up to another of your jointly written pieces - a basic guide would be great: just simple things like checking qualifications/professional affiliations; disclosure of any funding sources/other associations - as some of these people are affiliated to charismatic/fundamentalist Christian sects; and so on.
Oh our school paid for this guy. We left terrified. I wish I had your inbuilt filter - am such a sucker for anybody telling me I’m ’doing it wrong’.. or need to be terrified. Going to listen to the podcasts now. Looking forward to your series.
I heard the gist of what he said and nope, I’ll just keep having open communication with my kids about what they encounter on the internet. If I make it taboo, they’ll use devices in secret like I fully would have as a kid! We weren’t allowed to chew gum as kids and you better believe I snuck gum all the time! I don’t want my kids feeling like they have to hide anything from me.
Yes! I also have such great convos with my kid about this stuff. Like he has to have a phone so all the moralising about how kids shouldn’t have phones, like it doesn’t work for our family. And because we have had to focus on what we can do (the conversations) rather than what we can’t do (just not let him have a phone) I think it’s helped us. Because he’s said “some kids were talking about this what does it mean?” And “I got this text and I was a bit scared” (it was spam and we had said never answer a text from someone you don’t know, just in case they spam you - so yay parenting win!)
My son is 11 and has a phone because he takes a public bus to school and sometimes it doesn’t show up. His phone doesn’t accept texts from numbers he doesn’t have in his contacts. He asks me to add people. If he tries to download an app, I have to approve it on my phone. He mostly just texts me anyway! He tells me when he reports things on Roblox, and the phone is no big deal for him. I am far more attached to mine! My kids are so open about this stuff. I play Roblox with them, and Minecraft too! My parents didn’t know anything about the internet so I was free to do whatever and know what’s out there. Keeping me from it would have made me as naive as they were.
Also, thank goodness for the phone as he was at a sleepover on Saturday and his mates were eating birthday cake and making jokes about diabetes and it made him uncomfortable (he’s sensitive to anything health related, especially something as serious as diabetes) and they wouldn’t stop talking about it and he had a panic attack. He left the room, did his breathing exercises, and texted me to pick him up.
See this is exactly why I hate the binary! We never talk about positive phone stories!! My son told me about how he was added to a class WhatsApp group but left because he didn’t like it - we talked about what he didn’t like and I had so much more insight into his school life.
THANK YOU 🙏 We need internet literacy and healthy conversations about sex, not internet abstinence preached by Some Guy. Why do schools platform that dork?
Thank you so much for doing this Emily! Your sanity and humour in Rants in the Dark helped me feel sane when my kids were wee and I’m so glad you’re helping us out again with this next lot of ‘some guys’. There’s so much information to sift through and I’m not technical and it’s overwhelming at times.
Definitely, the Some Guy thing is really pervasive in education in particular.
I recently discovered Kirra Pendergast at Safe on Social in Australia, and watched one of her (less than $10) webinars. She has an approach that seems reasonable and affirming, and is based on her 30 years of experience in cybersecurity. She even had a Youth Advisory committee in 2020. Worth checking out.
The Some Guys out there absolutely kill me. I can’t even explain the amount of exhausting conversations I have had in staff rooms about these grifters!
I think there’s a… thinking style?… out there that perceives moral harm as a kind of hyper-contagion. So online danger is some unspecified kind of harm that is done simply by contact, any contact, with the dangerous material, instantly upon exposure. So, slamming the laptop shut is perceived as damage limitation in the most literal way. Harm is in the seeing or hearing - not in what it might do to the perceiver’s thinking and conduct. You see it all sorts of places – people bolting in apparent terror from a particular online platform, for example, because some porn bots got some traction there. I don’t just mean finding the particular online environment no longer congenial or to their taste; I mean they have indicated they are literally afraid of seeing the material. Is perceiving consuming? Intriguing too that they have so little confidence in their own values and decisions. I suppose it is related to the thinking behind that ‘fishy’ obsession with child trafficking – which seems to be based on a conviction that everyone except the person doing the scaremongering is basically a pervert waiting to happen unless they are one already. This kind of thinking seems often to go with massive factual ignorance about the many real harms that are done to vulnerable people, children among them.
This makes a lot of sense to me especially as a lot of people who come in to do these talks have Christian links. There is a bible verse that is well known in the church and is used to remind church goers that you have to guard your mind and keep your thoughts focused on things that are ‘authentic, honorable etc’. It’s a real guilt inducing verse that is used which connects with the behaviour described above. I’ll slam the laptop shut so my brain has no thoughts that aren’t pure or focused on God.
Yup i certainly felt stressed and anxious at times but funnily enough rereading that verse now I just feel sad at how I think the verse has been twisted. I find a nugget of good mental health practice. I’d sum it up as “don’t let yourself get distracted by stuff you can’t control. This will then let you live a more full life”.
I had always deeply suspected that these seminars were sex-negative, abstinence based, unrealistic nonsense. Grateful for your work and looking forward to looking into the info mentioned here ❤
Same! I feel like they’re so often also against education in other areas for kids like sex and relationships education. There’s such parallels between denying sex ed for your kids and denying any tech etc. the idea that your teen will just abstain from sex if you never talk about it, they’ll also abstain from any dodgy behaviour online if you never talk about it.
There's a red flag that goes up for me whenever I hear anyone spouting on about "protecting children" online. There's a guy (american I think) who was coming up a lot in mum groups a while ago proposing to be "hunting down child traffickers". It was basically scare mongering and smelt super fishy to me. Anyway, he ended up being a total grifter and has sexual abuse allegations against him! I can't put my finger on it but they often seem super dodgy imo.
I just got a very thoughtful comment from a young adult I know - a friend’s 19 year old - and I thought I’d share it - “If you try to take the internet away from kids, you don’t end up with kids that aren’t on the internet, you end up with kids that are REALLY GOOD at hiding the fact that they’re on the internet from their parents. And that results in a far lower chance that they’ll talk to their parents if something harmful happens to them on the internet.”
Just wanna say I love you all here. I sometimes forget how nice the conversations are here compared to FB. I’m like….what???? I’m so confused???? Whenever I’m on FB haha
It is so scary that Some Unqualified Guy is being employed by schools to offer some fairly suspect info. Some people were concerned enough to leave the meeting - I hope they let the school know why.
Oh don't worry I gave so much feedback haha and so did other mums
Yay to you! Thank you.
This is great. Schools find it hard to say no to this sort of stuff - there is (or is perceived to be) pressure from MoE, ERO etc and from some parents, BoT members, professional colleagues and so on to do "something" about the paranoia of the moment and these people absolutely prey on that.
I came across a similar person who had no relevant qualifications or publications but proudly claimed to be the leading national expert in evidence-based interventions - notwithstanding that not one word of that self-description is true.
Perhaps - when and if you feel up to another of your jointly written pieces - a basic guide would be great: just simple things like checking qualifications/professional affiliations; disclosure of any funding sources/other associations - as some of these people are affiliated to charismatic/fundamentalist Christian sects; and so on.
Thank you for sharing! Yes, I didn’t think of that and it makes so much sense!
Oh our school paid for this guy. We left terrified. I wish I had your inbuilt filter - am such a sucker for anybody telling me I’m ’doing it wrong’.. or need to be terrified. Going to listen to the podcasts now. Looking forward to your series.
I feel the same way so often! You're definitely not alone there and it's hard when people are set up to be credible you know?
The guy that spoke at our school’s qualification was that his wife had qualifications. I didn’t go.
That is def the same guy lol
I heard the gist of what he said and nope, I’ll just keep having open communication with my kids about what they encounter on the internet. If I make it taboo, they’ll use devices in secret like I fully would have as a kid! We weren’t allowed to chew gum as kids and you better believe I snuck gum all the time! I don’t want my kids feeling like they have to hide anything from me.
Yes! I also have such great convos with my kid about this stuff. Like he has to have a phone so all the moralising about how kids shouldn’t have phones, like it doesn’t work for our family. And because we have had to focus on what we can do (the conversations) rather than what we can’t do (just not let him have a phone) I think it’s helped us. Because he’s said “some kids were talking about this what does it mean?” And “I got this text and I was a bit scared” (it was spam and we had said never answer a text from someone you don’t know, just in case they spam you - so yay parenting win!)
My son is 11 and has a phone because he takes a public bus to school and sometimes it doesn’t show up. His phone doesn’t accept texts from numbers he doesn’t have in his contacts. He asks me to add people. If he tries to download an app, I have to approve it on my phone. He mostly just texts me anyway! He tells me when he reports things on Roblox, and the phone is no big deal for him. I am far more attached to mine! My kids are so open about this stuff. I play Roblox with them, and Minecraft too! My parents didn’t know anything about the internet so I was free to do whatever and know what’s out there. Keeping me from it would have made me as naive as they were.
Also, thank goodness for the phone as he was at a sleepover on Saturday and his mates were eating birthday cake and making jokes about diabetes and it made him uncomfortable (he’s sensitive to anything health related, especially something as serious as diabetes) and they wouldn’t stop talking about it and he had a panic attack. He left the room, did his breathing exercises, and texted me to pick him up.
See this is exactly why I hate the binary! We never talk about positive phone stories!! My son told me about how he was added to a class WhatsApp group but left because he didn’t like it - we talked about what he didn’t like and I had so much more insight into his school life.
THANK YOU 🙏 We need internet literacy and healthy conversations about sex, not internet abstinence preached by Some Guy. Why do schools platform that dork?
I think these ppl are just professional charmers eh and they just charm overworked principals idk
Thank you so much for doing this Emily! Your sanity and humour in Rants in the Dark helped me feel sane when my kids were wee and I’m so glad you’re helping us out again with this next lot of ‘some guys’. There’s so much information to sift through and I’m not technical and it’s overwhelming at times.
That means so much to me thank you ♥️
Definitely, the Some Guy thing is really pervasive in education in particular.
I recently discovered Kirra Pendergast at Safe on Social in Australia, and watched one of her (less than $10) webinars. She has an approach that seems reasonable and affirming, and is based on her 30 years of experience in cybersecurity. She even had a Youth Advisory committee in 2020. Worth checking out.
Yes she's fantastic!
Thank you! The Some Guy phenomenon is so real!
The Some Guys out there absolutely kill me. I can’t even explain the amount of exhausting conversations I have had in staff rooms about these grifters!
I think there’s a… thinking style?… out there that perceives moral harm as a kind of hyper-contagion. So online danger is some unspecified kind of harm that is done simply by contact, any contact, with the dangerous material, instantly upon exposure. So, slamming the laptop shut is perceived as damage limitation in the most literal way. Harm is in the seeing or hearing - not in what it might do to the perceiver’s thinking and conduct. You see it all sorts of places – people bolting in apparent terror from a particular online platform, for example, because some porn bots got some traction there. I don’t just mean finding the particular online environment no longer congenial or to their taste; I mean they have indicated they are literally afraid of seeing the material. Is perceiving consuming? Intriguing too that they have so little confidence in their own values and decisions. I suppose it is related to the thinking behind that ‘fishy’ obsession with child trafficking – which seems to be based on a conviction that everyone except the person doing the scaremongering is basically a pervert waiting to happen unless they are one already. This kind of thinking seems often to go with massive factual ignorance about the many real harms that are done to vulnerable people, children among them.
So well said Janet!! I truly think that’s so it right? I hadn’t thought of it that way but it’s totally true. And it puts kids so much more at risk!
This makes a lot of sense to me especially as a lot of people who come in to do these talks have Christian links. There is a bible verse that is well known in the church and is used to remind church goers that you have to guard your mind and keep your thoughts focused on things that are ‘authentic, honorable etc’. It’s a real guilt inducing verse that is used which connects with the behaviour described above. I’ll slam the laptop shut so my brain has no thoughts that aren’t pure or focused on God.
The verse is Philippians chap 4 v 8 if you’re at all interested seeing it in context
Thank you for the context, Brittany – I like to make sense of things. That sounds like a stressful way to live!
Yup i certainly felt stressed and anxious at times but funnily enough rereading that verse now I just feel sad at how I think the verse has been twisted. I find a nugget of good mental health practice. I’d sum it up as “don’t let yourself get distracted by stuff you can’t control. This will then let you live a more full life”.
I had always deeply suspected that these seminars were sex-negative, abstinence based, unrealistic nonsense. Grateful for your work and looking forward to looking into the info mentioned here ❤
Same! I feel like they’re so often also against education in other areas for kids like sex and relationships education. There’s such parallels between denying sex ed for your kids and denying any tech etc. the idea that your teen will just abstain from sex if you never talk about it, they’ll also abstain from any dodgy behaviour online if you never talk about it.
You’re a national treasure. Thank you
❤️❤️ this place is so much better than Facebook. Honestly, how do ppl get pissed at me there about tips when I haven’t even shared the tips yet 😅
They are just scared you will expose ‘that guy’ and give free and helpful parenting advice
There's a red flag that goes up for me whenever I hear anyone spouting on about "protecting children" online. There's a guy (american I think) who was coming up a lot in mum groups a while ago proposing to be "hunting down child traffickers". It was basically scare mongering and smelt super fishy to me. Anyway, he ended up being a total grifter and has sexual abuse allegations against him! I can't put my finger on it but they often seem super dodgy imo.
I really, really love you for doing this!